Comments on: The implications of eating meat http://rc3.org/2009/11/01/the-implications-of-eating-meat/ Strong opinions weakly held Mon, 15 Mar 2010 23:37:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Dan Lyke http://rc3.org/2009/11/01/the-implications-of-eating-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-7028 Dan Lyke Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:50:28 +0000 http://rc3.org/?p=10239#comment-7028 <p>Oh, just to further elaborate on my response to Jacob: The last two centuries or so have been quite an anomaly in human history. Many cultures, in fact often the same one over and over again, have grown to the limits of their environment and died back.</p> <p>Good arguments have been made that the only reason the current situation is still growing is that the Brits figured out how to use coal, which let that resulting economy grow 'til oil became a dominant source, but if we don't figure out the successor to that before those sources run out... well... back to agriculture.</p> <p>Frank, good suggestion! The farms local to me don't have buffalo, so far as I know, though.</p> Oh, just to further elaborate on my response to Jacob: The last two centuries or so have been quite an anomaly in human history. Many cultures, in fact often the same one over and over again, have grown to the limits of their environment and died back.

Good arguments have been made that the only reason the current situation is still growing is that the Brits figured out how to use coal, which let that resulting economy grow ’til oil became a dominant source, but if we don’t figure out the successor to that before those sources run out… well… back to agriculture.

Frank, good suggestion! The farms local to me don’t have buffalo, so far as I know, though.

]]> By: Frank http://rc3.org/2009/11/01/the-implications-of-eating-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-7024 Frank Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:08:15 +0000 http://rc3.org/?p=10239#comment-7024 <p>I'm sure you've tried it, but buffalo is a decent beef substitute. Grass fed, great nutrition/fat ratio, and tasty.</p> I’m sure you’ve tried it, but buffalo is a decent beef substitute. Grass fed, great nutrition/fat ratio, and tasty.

]]> By: Dan Lyke http://rc3.org/2009/11/01/the-implications-of-eating-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-7014 Dan Lyke Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:16:03 +0000 http://rc3.org/?p=10239#comment-7014 <p>Jacob, exactly: Countries with a high enough general standard of living level off and start to shrink.</p> Jacob, exactly: Countries with a high enough general standard of living level off and start to shrink.

]]> By: Rafe http://rc3.org/2009/11/01/the-implications-of-eating-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-7000 Rafe Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:43:47 +0000 http://rc3.org/?p=10239#comment-7000 <p>Yeah, my impression is that population growth slows as income rises, pretty much across the board.</p> Yeah, my impression is that population growth slows as income rises, pretty much across the board.

]]> By: Jacob Davies http://rc3.org/2009/11/01/the-implications-of-eating-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-6999 Jacob Davies Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:38:00 +0000 http://rc3.org/?p=10239#comment-6999 <p>"Barring a cultural change, as we’re seeing in countries with a high enough general standard of living, populations will expand until there’s a collapse."</p> <p>What, like in Japan? Population growth rate -0.02%? Right.</p> “Barring a cultural change, as we’re seeing in countries with a high enough general standard of living, populations will expand until there’s a collapse.”

What, like in Japan? Population growth rate -0.02%? Right.

]]> By: Dan Lyke http://rc3.org/2009/11/01/the-implications-of-eating-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-6998 Dan Lyke Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:56:53 +0000 http://rc3.org/?p=10239#comment-6998 <p>When I was a kid we raised various livestock, goats, ducks, and sheep. The goats were family, treated like dogs, we drank the milk but there's no way we'd have eaten them. The ducks froze one winter, so we ate them. The sheep?</p> <p>Yeah, carrots are smarter than sheep. I decided before my teen years that if I had no ethical qualms eating vegetables, sheep weren't an issue.</p> <p>But to the environmental point, I think it's fairly well established that if you have < 2 kids then there's pretty much no change in your lifestyle that'll have as much impact as not putting that extra offspring on the planet, except perhaps for working with other people's kids to raise them to an economic level where they feel that their best chance for passing on their genes is having one kid and doing everything they can to make that kid successful, rather than squeezing out as many as they can and hoping one makes it.</p> <p>Barring a cultural change, as we're seeing in countries with a high enough general standard of living, populations will expand until there's a collapse. Sustainable agriculture is a great start, but unless we quell population pressures it's just going to continue to be under attack.</p> When I was a kid we raised various livestock, goats, ducks, and sheep. The goats were family, treated like dogs, we drank the milk but there’s no way we’d have eaten them. The ducks froze one winter, so we ate them. The sheep?

Yeah, carrots are smarter than sheep. I decided before my teen years that if I had no ethical qualms eating vegetables, sheep weren’t an issue.

But to the environmental point, I think it’s fairly well established that if you have < 2 kids then there’s pretty much no change in your lifestyle that’ll have as much impact as not putting that extra offspring on the planet, except perhaps for working with other people’s kids to raise them to an economic level where they feel that their best chance for passing on their genes is having one kid and doing everything they can to make that kid successful, rather than squeezing out as many as they can and hoping one makes it.

Barring a cultural change, as we’re seeing in countries with a high enough general standard of living, populations will expand until there’s a collapse. Sustainable agriculture is a great start, but unless we quell population pressures it’s just going to continue to be under attack.

]]> By: Rafe http://rc3.org/2009/11/01/the-implications-of-eating-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-6995 Rafe Mon, 02 Nov 2009 02:27:16 +0000 http://rc3.org/?p=10239#comment-6995 <p>Suffice it to say that the moral weight of eating meat has not gone unexplored on my part.</p> Suffice it to say that the moral weight of eating meat has not gone unexplored on my part.

]]> By: glenn lane http://rc3.org/2009/11/01/the-implications-of-eating-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-6994 glenn lane Mon, 02 Nov 2009 02:24:58 +0000 http://rc3.org/?p=10239#comment-6994 <p>The taking of innocent lives (whether raised "sustainably" or not) invariably supports the notion that "might makes right". I applaud your awareness of the horror that is associated with factory farming, I urge you to continue examining the notion that killing simply because you can is a poor guide to behavior.</p> <p>Each farm animal had a mother, has attachments to others, can feel pain, fear and terror.</p> <p>For an extensively researched information source, you might read: "An Unnatural Order: Why We Are Destroying the Planet and Each Other" by Jim Mason.</p> <p>PS....the foods we eat are primarily driven by habit....there are many excellent (and tasty) dishes that do not involve the death of other animals.</p> <p>thanx</p> <p>Glenn</p> The taking of innocent lives (whether raised “sustainably” or not) invariably supports the notion that “might makes right”. I applaud your awareness of the horror that is associated with factory farming, I urge you to continue examining the notion that killing simply because you can is a poor guide to behavior.

Each farm animal had a mother, has attachments to others, can feel pain, fear and terror.

For an extensively researched information source, you might read: “An Unnatural Order: Why We Are Destroying the Planet and Each Other” by Jim Mason.

PS….the foods we eat are primarily driven by habit….there are many excellent (and tasty) dishes that do not involve the death of other animals.

thanx

Glenn

]]> By: Sean http://rc3.org/2009/11/01/the-implications-of-eating-meat/comment-page-1/#comment-6993 Sean Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:59:22 +0000 http://rc3.org/?p=10239#comment-6993 <p>There remains an interesting, and I believe untested / unanswered, question as to whether any beef, or just corn fed (which is all of industrially produced beef) is actually bad for your health.</p> There remains an interesting, and I believe untested / unanswered, question as to whether any beef, or just corn fed (which is all of industrially produced beef) is actually bad for your health.

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